Bobby Grich?
"Are you saying Grich shouldn't be a HOFer? He is usually among a very short list of names mentioned as the best player not in the hall. It's certainly debatable. And if not for Donnie Moore, he would have had the two most important hits in the 1986 ALCS. Just think, then you wouldn't have had to witness another Red Sox choke."
-Seitz
While one of the unheralded players of his generation, the fact remains that he is at best a borderline candidate. There's nothing in these numbers that says to me Hall-of-Famer. Not the totals, nor the averages, black ink, gray ink, etc... He'd likely tank the Keltner test, as well. Really good ballplayer, yes, nothing more.
But what's sad about your declaration is the fact that the best you do on the HoF front is to present a guy many think "should" be in the Hall and would "probably" wear an Angels hat. That along with your follow-up "if not" and "would have had" just don't add up to a rich legacy.
Finally, out of respect those who lost a loved one I have steered far clear of 1986, please, don't put Donnie Moore in the field of play. I am a man of limited restraint.
-Seitz
While one of the unheralded players of his generation, the fact remains that he is at best a borderline candidate. There's nothing in these numbers that says to me Hall-of-Famer. Not the totals, nor the averages, black ink, gray ink, etc... He'd likely tank the Keltner test, as well. Really good ballplayer, yes, nothing more.
But what's sad about your declaration is the fact that the best you do on the HoF front is to present a guy many think "should" be in the Hall and would "probably" wear an Angels hat. That along with your follow-up "if not" and "would have had" just don't add up to a rich legacy.
Finally, out of respect those who lost a loved one I have steered far clear of 1986, please, don't put Donnie Moore in the field of play. I am a man of limited restraint.
5 Comments:
Bobby Grich is an interesting case. One thing that works against him is that he played in two poor hitters parks during his career. I really wonder what his power numbers would have been like had he played in Fenway or Wrigley during that time period. I really liked Bobby Grich and remember him as the best 2nd baseman of that era (once Morgan declined). He combined great skill as a fielder with OBA and power for the position. He ranked 26th in win shares for the 1970s, tied with Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt, but 113 behind Joe Morgan, who led the decade. Grich ended up with 329 win shares for his career, ranking him 115th in the Bill James Win Shares book. Ozzie Smith just went in with 325. So while I wouldn't put him in the Hall, it's not a stretch to see him in the Hall. Maybe if the Angels had won a couple of WS with Grich as the hero, he'd be a there.
David Pinto
Grich is pretty clearly worthy of the Hall. Looking at the WARP figures at Baseball Prospectus puts him right in the middle of second basemen already in the hall -- in fact he would raise the HoF 2B mean WARP and OPS+. Add this to his excellent defense, and it's hard to argue he doesn't belong. He's at least of worthy as Ryne Sandberg and Lou Whitaker, both of which also deserve election. Grich has the same career OPS+ as Ron Santo, btw, and they both were good defenders, though Grich at a more important and difficult position.
I think he's the best eligible position player not in the Hall.
Grich is pretty clearly worthy of the Hall. Looking at the WARP figures at Baseball Prospectus puts him right in the middle of second basemen already in the hall -- in fact he would raise the HoF 2B mean WARP and OPS+. Add this to his excellent defense, and it's hard to argue he doesn't belong. He's at least of worthy as Ryne Sandberg and Lou Whitaker, both of which also deserve election. Grich has the same career OPS+ as Ron Santo, btw, and they both were good defenders, though Grich at a more important and difficult position.
I think he's the best eligible position player not in the Hall.
Grich is pretty clearly worthy of the Hall. Looking at the WARP figures at Baseball Prospectus puts him right in the middle of second basemen already in the hall -- in fact he would raise the HoF 2B mean WARP and OPS+. Add this to his excellent defense, and it's hard to argue he doesn't belong. He's at least of worthy as Ryne Sandberg and Lou Whitaker, both of which also deserve election. Grich has the same career OPS+ as Ron Santo, btw, and they both were good defenders, though Grich at a more important and difficult position.
I think he's the best eligible position player not in the Hall.
Grich is pretty clearly worthy of the Hall. Looking at the WARP figures at Baseball Prospectus puts him right in the middle of second basemen already in the hall -- in fact he would raise the HoF 2B mean WARP and OPS+. Add this to his excellent defense, and it's hard to argue he doesn't belong. He's at least of worthy as Ryne Sandberg and Lou Whitaker, both of which also deserve election. Grich has the same career OPS+ as Ron Santo, btw, and they both were good defenders, though Grich at a more important and difficult position.
I think he's the best eligible position player not in the Hall.
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